35. Giving Yourself Permission with Caleb Nelson

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:00]

Welcome to the Marketing Stack podcast and today's episode I have with me a very good friend. He's somebody who we did an episode with as well. I'm on his podcast called the Naked Sunday.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:12]

We had our clothes on. Unfortunately, I did pose Caleb the question as to why we didn't have the setup before, but yeah, Caleb's, goal it says on his podcast is he's dedicated his life to inspiring others to live to their fullest potential, which is very cliché.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:31]

And I would ask him about that in a couple of minutes NakedSunday, the pursuit of all aspects of personal growth, exploring all topics ranging from health, love, spirituality, wealth, and discovering your true purpose and beyond.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:44]

So that's about Caleb, Caleb, Caleb, Sunday. Why am I sayingCaleb Sunday? It's Caleb Nelson  

Caleb Nelson: [00:00:51]

it could be a case of Sunday too.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:54]

Sure. So I'm talking to Caleb today because, Caleb actually reached out to me in a Facebook group after I needed some help on some research that I was doing. And I'm still kind of doing, I think we're all in research mode all the time.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:01:07]

Anyway. On sort of my direction on my business and we got chatting and Caleb's a cool dude, as you can see, is quite handsome. If you're on the podcast, go to the YouTube channel, go check this dude out. He's a good-looking guy. Blue eyes on and all the rest. Caleb, how are you doing?

Caleb Nelson: [00:01:25]

I'm doing great. And you're making me blush right off the rip man. So I appreciate that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:01:30]

Yeah. White people, ain't white, they pink.

Caleb Nelson: [00:01:33]

That's just my fake and bake man. Little bit big summer glow going on. You know, I have to work very hard to try to get a semblance of a tan and my wife and my friends always make fun of me for it. And I'm like, whatever. I'm like, I got vitamin D, but it's better than the alternative, my hyper pale self so.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:01:50]

Well I'm sure the, lockdowns weren't any good for you and your skin color?

Caleb Nelson: [00:01:55]

I didn't stop. I just kept going. So a couple of places were still open. I mean, for a very short bit, some of the spots were closed, but like that past summer, I'm one, I'm one of those strange people.

Caleb Nelson: [00:02:05]

I think I'm one of the very few people on this planet who actually kind of enjoy chaos because I thrive in it. And from the perspective of like, I feel a lot of joy when. I help people and in chaos, everybody needs help. So it was very obvious. You don't have to look very far to be like, Oh, you need some help.

Caleb Nelson: [00:02:20]

Cool. Like, let's talk, you know, that kind of thing. But from another perspective, I kind of put a lot of pressure on myself to always like be busy. And it forced me to also, I almost had like this built an excuse to have like time to myself and pivoting towards like more of this online thing.I was like, Oh, well I got a lot of time back.

Caleb Nelson: [00:02:39]

And, I was outside. Every day. And I was like, during that time, I like reclaimed my health. I guess I was one of those people I had started it right beforehand. Cause I'd kind of gotten almost like this weird animosity towards health from owning a gym as long as I did and that it, I didn't have the joy anymore.

Caleb Nelson: [00:02:57]

And, during that whole summer for whatever reason, here inNew York, we had like, there's a beautiful warm summer and there's a park right behind where I live, and I was there every single day. So it didn't stop. It didn't stop.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:03:09]

Well, I'm glad you didn't. Cause I think a lot of people did including myself. I don't, well it's saying that it's like, I sat in the same position every day, speak to people all over the world, interview people for the podcast and meetings and all the rest. And at the end of the day, I have sometimes lots of imposter syndrome because I'm like, you didn't do anything.You didn't go anywhere. You didn't move your body. Like you just woke up.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:03:35]

Got your machine, ate your food and went back to bed and it's sometimes feels very strange. And I think that's what happened to a lot of people on you know, during lockdowns and in some parts of the world is still happening. But yeah, like that was my, that's been sort of my world for the last five years anyway. How did you find that transition? I mean, like you said, you know, everyone needs help. So what did you see change in the world in that time?

Caleb Nelson: [00:04:04]

Ooh. In the world, how did I see change? I saw a lot of people what really became very apparent as a lot of people do not plan for the obvious that there will be catastrophe in one way, shape or form at some point,I think anybody who's been an entrepreneur for a long enough time understands that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:04:23]

And like, well, the bottom could fall out at any point. So looking forward and anticipating downfalls, you know, it happened to be a pandemic.It could have been anything else. And for me, I've gone through, I changed the culture of my gym when I had it. Probably four or five times, we always joke that it wasn't really a joke.

Caleb Nelson: [00:04:46]

The only thing that didn't move in the six, seven, eight, nine years, however long, it was, well, at least the one spot we were in, the only thing that didn't move was the rig that was bolted into the ground. And the flooring as well, because it was heavy. I like changing because I, to me that there always has to be constant tweaking.

Caleb Nelson: [00:05:02]

There's something that's when I get that itch, like there's something coming up. I was actually talking to a couple of friends of mine yesterday about as you get exposed to like the time, and you've realized like different lengths of time where a certain strategy works, you realize eventually it will lead to a new problem later on.

Caleb Nelson: [00:05:23]

So as you have, as you run up into those problems, which does take longer periods of time. Each subsequent time, like in the beginning, it's like, how do I make a dollar today? Because I need to pay my bills for tomorrow. Then it becomes, how do I do this for the next month? And then how doI plan for three months?

Caleb Nelson: [00:05:39]

And then a year and then three years and then five years.And then all of a sudden it goes 10, 20, 30 years. Like, how do I keep doing this? Or how do I live my life? But until you've bumped up into enough things, you don't, you think like just the thing in front of you is always, yeah, you gonna work and you have to run into that enough.

Caleb Nelson: [00:05:55]

So for me, it became apparently obvious, especially from something like a health field, like everybody knows, you got to like, drink more water, do more exercise, all those things we're like, and we never think we're going to run into the problem until there's usually some screeching halt moment that like says, Hey, I should probably get my act together.

Caleb Nelson: [00:06:16]

And that was, that was my exposure in the health field. But, that when you see it across the board on so many levels from like a mental health to physical health. I think the most obvious was people have taken relationships for granted so much. The convenience of this person is next to me and I have, and I was like, I haven't even talked to them ever.

Caleb Nelson: [00:06:39]

They haven't had meaningful conversation. That one really stuck out to me. Because I was talking to before really kind of like completely closed the gym and moved to the like, kind of made the final decisions. Like we're not going back. Like the kind of things I told the clients were like, you all have each other's numbers, you have your, your friends.

Caleb Nelson: [00:06:59]

Like, I can't just be the only like what if I died tomorrow, you're going to just not have friends that you're going to not have these relationships.And I think so many people are, are afraid of. And these hard, fast lines of, well, that's my gym friends. And then this is my and they do the same thing they do with  their work friends, like, or you're just a friend and you know how to talk to people and you can build these relationships.

Caleb Nelson: [00:07:25]

I think a lot of people get afraid of that blurring lines thing, and I can understand it, but I have this personal belief, like there's no, there should. And I shouldn't, I don't really like using the word should, but. I don't operate on this personal professional thing. It's I am who I am.I'm showing up this way and that is authenticity.

Caleb Nelson: [00:07:47]

And when you can do that everywhere you go, you don't have to put on this veil. You don't have to do that. And I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people have that like smack them in the face of like, I'm bored with myself. I'm not even okay with myself, I'm here at home or there's how these new distractions they didn't prepare, but like, what are my support systems? How would I prepare for something like this or the inevitabilities of that?

Burhaan Pattel: [00:08:14]

Well, the ultimate question, which is, who am I?

Caleb Nelson: [00:08:17]

Yeah, I mean, that's how I started the podcast right onNaked Sunday. It's like, who are you? And, you know, some people call it the great reset. I think the pandemic served as the great fast, and I've done a few extended fasts in my life. I actually did one the last seven days of 2019, which in hindsight looks very, between that and then Iowasca ceremony.

Caleb Nelson: [00:08:42]

We're very almost, I wouldn't say prosthetic, but it was like very preparatory to clear my mind and prepare myself for a new transition, a new phase of my life and fasts. It's not that I'm saying everybody should just like stop eating for seven days just because it's this condition of like, let me remove some of the distractions in my life. And when I sit with that, what do I find? And you see, a lot of people just buried themselves in alcohol or just ate like a crazy person or whatever.

Caleb Nelson: [00:09:10]

They found some new distraction or even worse yet they found distraction and just being angry at their partners. And they found distraction in just being upset and like being busy for no reason, because they just couldn't sit with themselves. They couldn't find meaning and purpose with themselves alone. And the truth is they were already doing that at work, they were doing it. They're just going about their daily lives and never took a moment to pause.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:09:39]

Yeah, it was just brought up in front of their face now. It was just all of a sudden apparent.

Caleb Nelson: [00:09:44]

Yeah. And as much as some people, I think that people that really struggled with it, there's going to be a lot of people, probably three to five years from now that are going to look back and go, Whoa, I needed that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:09:57]

No, I haven't. I had a scare that kind of like changed my life. About seven years ago, my dad almost died and it was very similar. It's like I was sharing the story with my friends yesterday. I was like, I'm sitting in the hospital. He had some complications, like a stroke complication from medication for cancer treatment.

Caleb Nelson: [00:10:13]

And, thank God he's alive. We're actually go on vacation a couple of weeks. But I'm pretty amped about it. And I'm just like feeding him this grool whatever it was like shitty hospital food hospital food. And like, I look into his eyes. I'm like one, that's not my dad. Like this guy's just looks like dead.

Caleb Nelson: [00:10:28]

But when I really paused and there was this stillness in the room for me, at least what I really saw was like my own reflection of what I've done with my life right now. It means nothing. It doesn't, it just amounts to nothing. Everything I've done is surface level. I'm just trying to shine the shell.

Caleb Nelson: [00:10:45]

Whatever. I've been avoiding, I've been distracting myself with meaningless problems with meaningless superficial discussions. You know, not to say I hadn't had some decent conversations, some great friends and somethings, a little malls lines, but I wasn't challenging myself to go inward and really ask myself where do I want to go with my life?

Caleb Nelson: [00:11:03]

So that for me, strange blessing in disguise, now that I've had this really profound relationship that I've built with my father and change things relationship with like, for all other friends and business and whatnot that served to me though. It was this terrifying moment in life. And I think a lot of people have that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:11:19]

I can see a lot of people a few years from now when, when the dust settles and they catch their breath and maybe they haven't, they were forced to change some things that they didn't think were, they thought it was like terrible at the time, they're going to look back and be like, you know what? I might've needed that wake up call.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:11:37]

Yeah, a hundred percent for me, I had said to my girlfriend that, you know, there's two things going to happen with relationships is either you're living with somebody you love, or you're living with somebody who you hate. And there's no middle ground because like being stuck with somebody in the house for even just quarantine or 14 days or just being stuck in a specific location, you can't travel, you can't move around.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:00]

There were no distractions. You had to do everything in home type of thing. Yeah. It's like that, that was the first sort of wake up of like, Oh shit, the person I'm with is X. And then the true feelings and emotions come up. Because I think, I think a lot of people use work as a distraction to get away from which is kind of counterintuitive.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:22]

Like you'd think that everybody would do what they love todo, but it's not the case. Yeah. And so when I designed my life, when I leftSouth Africa, as some of you is listening to podcast know, like I purposely decided that I was going to just not have this work-life balance. It was like, if there's two sides to the scale, then we have to balance all the time.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:45]

It's like, there is no scale. It's all just one life.Nothing to balance. Cool. Let's go. And that like gave me the clarity. I needed to realize that, well, weekends are whenever I wanted to be. If I wanted to do something on a particular day, because of the way that I've set up my work and set up my lifestyle, I can just go do it. Like I have no meetings. Like why doI, you know, you know what I mean?

Caleb Nelson: [00:13:08]

Yeah, I think you really brought something to light there.People until they you know, you've gone through some challenging moments in your life. I think you've had a lot of those, like, Oh, what am I doing here?And it usually comes from those very deep, challenging moments when it's your back against the wall.

Caleb Nelson: [00:13:26]

Or like money's tight or a relationship is blowing up in your face or somebody dies or something, whatever it's these massively painful inflection points that causes you to just like pause. It literally stops you and forcing you.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:13:42]

For a lot of people yeah. I mean, for me, like I said, you know, like for me, those moments were not as stressful or as critical, like it wasn't life or death, you know? Althoughfor some people it might have seemed like it, but I've since realized that this is just the way of the entrepreneur.

Caleb Nelson: [00:14:01]

Yeah.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:14:02]

And I'm now owning the fact that, Oh, wait, I am actually an entrepreneur, which is strange because I never quite associated myself with that crowd. And like, now that you're saying, like everybody has to embrace, change and change it, you know, like plan for the future and, and do all of these things. It's kind of like, yeah, these are the traits of an entrepreneur.And now that I confidently wear the hat. It's like, yeah, yeah, we are like this.

Caleb Nelson: [00:14:32]

Yeah. And it's hard to like, especially on defining yourself, like I'm a person who just knows how to live in that. And it's just part of the day-to-day and accepting the change in like it's inevitable that things will change. And that's a reality that I think every human should come to terms with. I think somebody who will say slaps that label on themselves, that I am an entrepreneur.

Caleb Nelson: [00:14:55]

I think most readily embraces that notion. I think there's the entrepreneurial mindset. So, you know, somebody doesn't have to be a business owner to embrace that sense of it. They can own their job, they can own the relationship they can, but it's more the saying of like, I'm going to be very intentional about how I craft my life about who I associate with how I organize my day, how I take care of myself.

Caleb Nelson: [00:15:21]

And in the end of the day, we're all our own business, right? Like, it's this, it's not a machine, but it isn't like an operating organism that needs input output needs a lot of different needs and needs a lot of time to like fine tune itself. And it changes over time with other responsibilities. One of the things I love that you brought up with like your girlfriend, like that sounds like the two of you had a great conversation about it.

Caleb Nelson: [00:15:44]

One of the big things that I was proud of with my wife, I'd gotten pretty set on my values for over the past few years, because that was just something I was exploring together as a couple, we got really solid. And then she, cause she was kind of like she had said, like, I'm kind of like envious, like, you know what you stand for?

Caleb Nelson: [00:16:02]

And I was like, yeah, but that just came from just me sitting with this. I also got plenty of people around the areas got pissed with me and I made a few there probably people that don't like me. We'll put it that way, but it's just from like some people are gonna not like you, when you decide what you stand for and what I really admired for her, she just sat down and became very intentionally, started journaling, trying to doing all those things.

Caleb Nelson: [00:16:23]

And as a couple, it brought us together. Don't get me wrong.There was friction, just like anything else, you know, she thinks I'm a little too messy and I think she can be a little OCD and there's friction and conflict within that. And she'd get rolling her eyes off in the background at me right now. But it's the fact that we're willing to go through that together and have the continued conversation.

Caleb Nelson: [00:16:44]

Most people think like they're going to have this one conversation, whether it's with your business partner or your staff or your significant other, your kids, they think is going to be one conversations that, that Disney movie, Oh, we're going to get here. We have that great thing. We're gonna cry, or we're gonna hug it out and they're going to be fucking happy.It's like, no. That does

Burhaan Pattel: [00:17:02]

It doesn't exist.

Caleb Nelson: [00:17:03]

It doesn't exist and not only that, I would say that's the start that's the start of the relationship, because that was the moment of truth, where you both look each other in the eye and say, this is both what west and for. This is where I'm at, how are we going to move forward? And we need to hold each other accountable to that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:17:21]

And there was this analogy yesterday again, I had a really amazing, I'm very fortunate to have some phenomenal friends in my life. But one of the conversations around I think it was in business, we were talking about like, people get to a certain level. They think they're a master at stuff, but my friend brought up.

Caleb Nelson: [00:17:39]

He's like, you have to think of it more like the like karate or martial arts where like the black belt. Right. And everybody who gets to a black belt and everything. Oh, your black belt, your master, you know, everything now. Every one of them will say that that's when my education started. That's when I actually started to learn things. And you, cause you realize, you know, almost nothing, the subtleties, the art of things.

Caleb Nelson: [00:17:59]

And I think the same thing goes in your relationships is that when you get hyper clear on what are your values, now you have to say, well, I guess we both stand on that where in our life and in our conversations and in all of our doings and our everything. Am I not completely in alignment with that, and it's going to be now, how do we solely tweak and massage and work our way into those things?

Caleb Nelson: [00:18:25]

And I think the beautiful thing about being an entrepreneur is that you can fully control all of those things because you're the boss, you're the boss. There's not some like person above you to say like, Oh, am I allowed to change my schedule this way? It's no, you get to decide that and you get to deal with the consequences of that as well.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:18:44]

Yeah, I think that's kind of the the entrepreneurial superpower or, you know, like having that, ability to create the things around you, but what you said about relationships, it's not only like personal relationships, not just husband, wife, or boyfriend, girlfriend, or, you know, the person you love it goes beyond that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:19:01]

Because even your interactions with your friends, like. I don't know how I don't know about you, but for me, I want to try to make every moment count and the moments that are not counting, I feel terribly guilty sometimes. And it's like you know, sleeping is a challenge for me at the moment. Just I have no idea why.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:19:24]

It's like, I know I'm tired. I can feel it, but. There's this part of my brain that just doesn't want to turn off. And I, I heard on a podcast actually by Alex Charfen who has the momentum podcast and he, in his intro, it says, you know, entrepreneurs can't turn it off. And when I heard that, I was like, huh. Yeah, that makes sense. So why have I been trying to turn it off all these years?

Caleb Nelson: [00:19:49]

I think there's this weird conditioning about all those things. I think also part of it is defining what's enough as having this conversation with one of the girls on the team yesterday, where she struggles with that. You can to define that and you can say it's also, I mean, for me,I'd have to struggle with a lot of sleep problems in my life from that perspective as well. Like the wheels are just turning.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:20:10]

Yeah.

Caleb Nelson: [00:20:11]

One of the things that I started to do was I just gave myself permission because of like all these thoughts here. If I'm not rested, I can't give them the attention they deserve. And for whatever reason, that seems to work for me just to tell myself it's all right for right now, because with that refined and renewed energy that I'm going to get from this permission thatI'm giving myself, I'm going to make this fleeting thought that this is my head.

Caleb Nelson: [00:20:39]

It's going to come back to me. It didn't just like pop up out of nowhere. I've probably been simmering on it from a few different angles for awhile. I just right now, for whatever reason, when I'm laying my head down and I'm at peace it must've just rear its ugly head. Well, it's not about that because it's probably how we're solving problems.

Caleb Nelson: [00:20:55]

And I agree. It's not about turning it off. It's about making time for it. I think a lot of people don't make enough time. As an entrepreneur to just sit and think, and they don't organize their life in a way to say, like, that's probably your most valuable asset to bring to the table.You're willing to dream.

Caleb Nelson: [00:21:13]

You're willing to sit there and I do it all the time. I make time to just go off into Lala land and it's like, the impossible is possible.All that, you know, like all the wounds shit, but it's not shit. It's real. It allows me to feel like I can make the impossible connections and then walk it back from impossible to say, here's the real, here's how we can actually make some type of connection within that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:21:39]

I think entrepreneurs are driven by something they can't necessarily always describe it's this almost like this drive to like leave something behind that they may never even achieve. And that's okay cause by all intents and purposes, like more often than not people going into business for themselves.

Caleb Nelson: [00:21:55]

It doesn't make sense in the beginning because like there's other companies that are probably doing something similar that are more funded and all those other things that go along with it which leads into the whole like assignments and that kind of start with Y infinite game with the just cause all that stuff.

Caleb Nelson: [00:22:12]

That's what we're being compelled to do. We're being compelled to like deal with the unknown of them. This idea I have in my head, I think there's a better way. And I'm willing to sit with that and for prolonged periods of discomfort, but if we don't give ourselves permission to make the time and delegate our time appropriately so that we can actually think about that stuff.

Caleb Nelson: [00:22:31]

You're missing out on the thing that's like, that's your super power to sit through the crazy that other people think is crazy, but because you're willing to sit there and be in that you actually give it sometime under tension to like chew on the idea and make it, make it into something tangible. But most people just don't do that because of guilt or you're supposed to be at this time. And that time and dah, dah, dah, dah.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:22:57]

Yeah, I get yeah, yeah. The social, social conditioning of like, Oh wait, you're different. We don't understand you. Why are you the way you are? And I certainly know that. I mean, trying to fit in for many, many years. And as soon as I realized that actually my puzzle piece doesn't quite fit then and being okay with that, it was like, Oh wait, that's when things started to change, not.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:23:22]

And that wasn't like intentional change that was just like,Oh wait, this feels comfortable now this feels me. This feels worthwhile. And when it, you know, when it comes to business and when it comes to talking to your clients. So when it comes to marketing your business, so it comes to just having the conversations because ultimately that's what marketing is. It's like, we're just trying to connect with each other.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:23:46]

It becomes easier because if you can recognize who you are, if you can look at yourself in the mirror, even just for a split second, like we're not saying, Hey, stage yourself for ages, because that can be difficult for some people. Like it just starts with like a short. Like, Hey, what's up.And, you know, that's that like, that's where it starts.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:24:04]

I think that's very powerful. And again, I know that the podcast is all about marketing and all of this stuff and  you know, I, I tend to get into personal development stuff with people because it is the foundation. It is the thing that propels or fuels or drives I think everything.

Caleb Nelson: [00:24:23]

I agree with that because you said it best. It's just conversation. And the first marketing you're ever doing is to yourself. That's like the number one marketer is your own self-talk.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:24:35]

Ah, but, but Caleb, we're lying to ourselves all the time.

Caleb Nelson: [00:24:39]

I agree.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:24:40]

We're selling ourselves bullshit all day long.

Caleb Nelson: [00:24:43]

Well we're believing, the other thing we've been pitched.You know, because of whatever the other authority has been, whether it's parents, society, culture, whatever,

Burhaan Pattel: [00:24:52]

other marketing,

Caleb Nelson: [00:24:54]

Other marketing, it is just all other marketing and people get a little wound up on that stuff. But like, you know, I'm not going to go into politics or anything like that. But like once people start to understand that these are just tried and true tactics there's there are tactics to just selling and marketing. It's a few pointed questions, a few pointed statements, and you say it enough times, people start to believe it.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:25:14]

Yep.

Caleb Nelson: [00:25:15]

And when you think of that, once you come to terms with it, you've been doing that to yourself all day long, because that's the only voice that follows you around all day long. It has the best access. I don't care how good Facebook is and how much data it has on you. You and your internal dialogue have the best data unconsciously or consciously. And if you don't start to unwind that you're going to be in a bad spot.

Caleb Nelson: [00:25:41]

So I think personal development is not just personal development. It's business development because the business, and this is why I think owning a business is so valuable. Because I think it's this massive personal development tool. If you are not solid on you, you will see it reflected in your business, whether it's lack of time or lack of resources.

Caleb Nelson: [00:26:05]

And when I started to like flip the switch and be like, everybody here that I am talking to is a reflection. When I was angry at the people walking through the door, or when I was angry at my staff or angry at my clients and be like this, that, and the other thing I was not talking, they were just so much friction. And I was like, it's not them. I own my life.

Caleb Nelson: [00:26:26]

And it was my fault that I got myself into this position. Money is tight. I got myself into this position is my fault. And it was from decisions I made that I had to sit with. I did to be like this might've been from two years ago. I need to think about that. It might've been three years ago. I might've been from beyond that, that I just never came to terms with.

Caleb Nelson: [00:26:46]

And when I took that moment and said like, the businesses is like my walking dashboard, my bottom line is my dashboard of I'm doing it right. Or I'm doing it wrong. I would start to look at these people in my life and the conversations they were bringing to my table and saying one, thank you.What are you teaching me right now?

Caleb Nelson: [00:27:05]

And two, Oh, this is probably how I've been talking to myself. Whether it's my self worth issues or it's, you know, I'm, I have my own control stuff or whatever it was for me the longest time it took forever to let go of control and just trust people to do stuff, and delegate, self-worth stuff to charge what I was worth.

Caleb Nelson: [00:27:26]

Those are the things that I know I grappled with a lot and, you know, I put it under the guise of I'm still trying to help everybody. Mm, not so much like that was my protective mechanism. And I, it was also the, my reason, my false justification for saying why can't I have the relationships and the conversations that I want to have as, because I had a deep issue with intimacy and being open and being vulnerable and being real.

[Caleb Nelson: 00:27:52]

And once that changed and I said, here's who I am not here's a couple two bits about me, right. When you would kind of talk about like, where's it bio, you have, we can talk about my cliches. You know, sometimes we need a little more cliches in this world. I can be cheesy at time. I really can. And you know, I haven't seen the same five jokes that, you know, my wife just rolls her eyes like, Oh, there he goes again.

Caleb Nelson: [00:28:18]

But it's when we can understand that. It just like, it's just as beautiful thing. It's just a reflection. I started to meet these things with different inter empathy. I connected with this intimacy. And then I saw it reflected my personal life. How did I talk to my wife? And I started thinking about like, not only how am I talking with my wife, but how are we going to build a family?

Caleb Nelson: [00:28:36]

And those things matter because if somebody thinks that their personal relationships are not going to affect their business life, you're out of your mind, like,

Burhaan Pattel: [00:28:44]

yeah, those things, yeah. Again, one of those impossible things.

Caleb Nelson: [00:28:48]

Yeah. But I mean, and then I would flip it. Why are you not treating your home life like a business? My marriage there's consequences. If it doesn't work out, like there's a separation. There's other thing is, you know, do I believe in like

Burhaan Pattel: [00:29:01]

It affects every single piece

Caleb Nelson: [00:29:03]

Exactly. And we'll call it the clients. If we have kids they get affected, how did they get affected by our inability to get clear? So business were you know, you're almost inadvertently forced to put things down in paper, like hyper, hyper clear that's why would we not do that? Does my wife and does my friends is all the people that I interact with.

Caleb Nelson: [00:29:29]

Do they not deserve the same level of clarity because that's, apparently I care about them, right? Shouldn't I shouldn't. I say I care about them more than anything. Why am I not showing them that same respect? And it was more or less

Burhaan Pattel: [00:29:46]

Or show yourself the same respect

Caleb Nelson: [00:29:48]

Well I was about to say that, why am I not showing myself that same respect? And for me the math became my core values. The literal, you know, I don't like hard, fast lines on anything because it's just like, there's no absolutes in this world. I like things that originally flexible. That's kind of the term I use. And it gives me enough of a framework that I can kind of.

Caleb Nelson: [00:30:08]

I can place it contextually into different worlds, but I've got like my five core values. My wife and I are on solid on the same thing. And that's the math to how we organize our life. And when I make a decision in business, it's got to line up with that. And when I make a decision in my personal life, it gets gotta line up with that.

Caleb Nelson: [00:30:22]

When I do it, my friend, everything with my health and my health is just my conversation with myself too, how am I treating this building that houses, the business that goes everywhere. If that, if that doesn't work.That helps people. Like if this thing is broken down, it made me blush a little bit. Like he thinks it's his handsome guy.

Caleb Nelson: [00:30:42]

You know, like if I look tired and strung out and like low energy and I show up to a business meeting where somebody might need to talk about some heavy shit, you know, things that happen over time. Like people tell me about attempted suicides, drug, addictions, abuse, all those things.

Caleb Nelson: [00:30:58]

And those are real parts of their equation because part of the conversation they're having with themselves, if I'm not there and present.Hmm. I might miss out on something that's really, really important that might really affect part of their decision making process on something that has to do with, you know, their own client processes or their own marketing efforts or their conversations they're having.

Caleb Nelson: [00:31:19]

It's my responsibility to show up at my best. So taking care of my health, taking care of my relationships, taking care of my own financial affairs. It is important. And that's what I think of when I tell anybody you need to find harmony between those three things, because if you don't it, because it's not a balanced thing, it's harmony, it's knowing which pieces does need, what attention to what's the priority at which time.

Caleb Nelson: [00:31:45]

And if we don't come to terms with that you're doing the people that you serve a disservice and it's only a matter of time to start to see like, Oh, there's some cracks in this system. How am I, I'm not feeding thisthing properly? I guess that's a pun intended from a health perspective, but.

Caleb Nelson: [00:32:03]

It's I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but so many people try to make it so literal. Like, Oh, I can make, especially in business,I can make this much money in, like I was supposed to make this much money and that'd be happy about the house. I got the car. I had the, you know, the, the model life and all that

Burhaan Pattel: [00:32:18]

Again, that Disney ending. Yeah. It doesn't, it's not quite the end. Yeah.

Caleb Nelson: [00:32:24]

Yeah. And I mean, don't get me wrong. I had a lot of those that titular success, business owner, Barbie girlfriends, you know, good date.Attractive women and that thing, and I was young. I could have my own business and have like clout in this world and, you know, I could take my shirt off and look good naked, like cool.

Caleb Nelson: [00:32:43]

But I was miserable. And until 27 it was like, just pumping this idea of like, if I do all these things, people will accept me. And then I had this, you know, screeching halt moment in my life between a business fallout and some other relationship fallouts and. And then my father's, failing health that just said, huh? This one is exhausting to keep up with, I've got injuries up the wazoo.

Caleb Nelson: [00:33:08]

Cause I'm doing ridiculous things to my body to maintain something that these people don't care about. When the business stuff went South, the people I thought were friends didn't stand by me and just like my relationships were, I wasn't having the depth of conversation I wanted to have. And lo and behold, like business always would hit some weird ceiling. It was just this perfect, beautiful representation standing there in front of me.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:33:35]

Yeah, it's kind of the benchmark. I see it as the benchmark.So like for me 2020 was challenging. Not only because of like, you know, just coming to terms with all of the stuff that was going on. I kind of took us like step back and it was just like observing everybody instead of being intentionally focused of like, Oh, wait, this is now the time to both.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:33:58]

This is the time to hunker down on the things that are important. And, and I did get to that eventually, but looking at sort of my numbers at the end of the year, and it took me a long time to actually realize that. Oh wait, like things are okay, but they're not like they used to be, it's not, you know, it wasn't quite the satisfying, you know, like entrepreneurs want to see the graph go up all the time.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:34:20]

Like when there's a bump, when there's a, when there's a little bit of a dip, it's kind of like, Oh wait, why? So I actually sat with that. It was like, Oh, why? And then that's when I started having these conversations, you know, I got serious about the podcast started interviewing and now, you know, like I'm starting to see the sort of fruits of that sort of change that I've made in my life.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:34:45]

But also in my business, even though, like I said, I haven't quite moved from the chair that I'm in, but I think mentally shifting and realizing and owning the business, like really owning it. Like I said, you know, it's like, Oh wait, I am an entrepreneur type of thing. And that might be sort of cocky to some, but. No, we are. And we don't have to apologize for that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:35:10]

So quick question. I know you've got to go in a couple of minutes. How does the, how does your podcast feature in all of this? Because like, I, I understand, you know, like Naked Sundays, like you're stripping. And in your, you know, you wanna, you wanna sort of take away all the frozen, all the whistles.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:35:28]

And all, all of those things and speak to your friends, speak to your people, speak, you know, get real about life. And have people hopefully listen on a Sunday and just like chill with you. How does that fit into what you're on a mission to do?

Caleb Nelson: [00:35:43]

Ooh, my mission, I was talking about this yesterday, too.And I think I told you at risk of sounding like a beauty pageant queen, like I want world peace and that's what I'm going for at the end of the day. And whenI find that people are in harmony with their own life in their health, their wealth and the relationships they like, what do you have to complain about?

Caleb Nelson: [00:36:09]

What are you upset about? You're good. And you don't feel like you need to control other people. You don't feel like you need to control other things. You take a step back and I'm like, I'm just good. And NakedSunday was a practice that I legitimately did myself. And then I brought my wife into the practice because we were both taking care of her health at the time.

Caleb Nelson: [00:36:28]

And I had put on a bunch of weight. I was about 40 pounds overweight at the time and really unhappy with that because I was, I own a gym.And I'm like, at the time I was trying to tell people you should take care of health and. The practice was sitting naked with myself, brought up this unreal negative self-talk of like inadequacy and whatnot.

Caleb Nelson: [00:36:46]

I had to just sit there and one confront reality, like this is what's going on. This is where you're at. What are the behaviors that got you here, but also what do you actually bring to the table? Why does your wife didn't stay with you? Why does she love you? What are your friends value in your life? And it started to become this.

Caleb Nelson: [00:37:06]

This nakedness brought out the authenticity. It brought out the real conversation of who I am, and it allowed me to come to terms with whatI believe in what I am solid on and what I'm willing to go to my grave for, you know, like that kind of thing. And I believe entrepreneurs and people that are in leadership positions.

Caleb Nelson: [00:37:31]

Because again, that's kind of like pulls away just the entrepreneur. Like you don't have to have the title of business owner. You can be a leader in any position. You can lead those that are ahead of you that are in, that are the CEO. If you're the CFO or the COO, or, you know, even if you're the, on the service level, the client facing level, you're not like you can lead your own life.

Caleb Nelson: [00:37:52]

There's a great, YouTube video I'll find it at some point, but it's like a lollipop leadership or something like that. It was a Ted talk from years ago, but you can lead it in any aspect of your life. I don't think people are, feel confident enough to lead if they don't know who they are or what they have to bring to the table.

Caleb Nelson: [00:38:09]

And selfishly one I just liked talking to smart people.Cause I realized, I don't know much, you know, everybody gets to that point in their life. Hopefully that you're like, I know very little on this planet andI'm not going to learn more if I don't associate myself with people that do know more. And listen, I need to learn how to shut up and just pay attention.

Caleb Nelson: [00:38:29]

But also my endeavor with the podcast is I believe that great business comes from trust. And if you're not open and honest and real asa human, how can somebody truly trust you? And what I've been really grateful for one, like you sharing your own story. Like you were very vulnerable. It doesn't take much for me to say, cool. I would hand this guy, my money.

Caleb Nelson: [00:38:55]

As it should be, because money is just an idea. It's an exchange of trust. We can do away with all the pieces of paper and all that tomorrow. And just go back to a barter system as if we all just knew how to trust each other and live up to our word, which is hence what conversation is, right.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:39:11]

It'd be hard for me to carry a bag and that's to you, but sure.

Caleb Nelson: [00:39:15]

Right, exactly. So obviously the construct of, of money and whatever that is facilitates this, this kind of interaction, but to me when we can be real with each other things happen, right? Business happens at the speedof trust and trust happens at the speed of vulnerability. So if we just get vulnerable and be real with each other.

Caleb Nelson: [00:39:36]

And, you know, especially on the show attended, rather as of late, it's been a lot of men that I've been interviewing men don't really talk about feelings and stuff, and like love and passion and all that other stuff, because it's thought of this, like this soft feelings thing. And there needs to be a respectful, harmonious relationship between those masculine and feminine energies of all that, because it's the complete, it, isn't the relationship.

Caleb Nelson: [00:40:01]

It is this, you know, and I talk about more, this energy is not just like these other defined things. And in that space, especially when it comes to service providers, people that coach people that build these relationships and when we can be truly honest like that, like, I think that's how we change the world because

Burhaan Pattel: [00:40:19]

That's how real change happens.

Caleb Nelson: [00:40:22]

Yeah. And I don't care if I agree with everybody. Like I don't, I don't care. In fact, I would prefer that somebody who doesn't agree with me, just tell me straight up and give me a reason why, so I can understand. And I still might not agree at the end of it, but at least we can find some common ground and we can respect each other in a conversation to say, so this is where we're at.

Caleb Nelson: [00:40:44]

How do we move forward? People just want to bitch and moan about their stance just to stand on a pedestal and be like, I want to be the one who's right. Well, what are we going to do with it? If it doesn't move forward? I think it's like why coaching is such a powerful thing, because coaching is about forward-facing things. Where are we going?

Caleb Nelson: [00:41:00]

Not like we have to understand where we've been. We have to know where some of our tendencies come from, but where we take in this thing.And if we're not. We all still have to live on this planet together until we, you know, upload our consciousness and it gets set off into the, you know, the ether.

Caleb Nelson: [00:41:17]

We got to find a way to figure it out. And I think business because it is entrepreneurs are hard wired to solve problems. We see a problem in the market. Somebody is going to fill that void with solutions because there's a calling to do better, to help other people to make the world a better place than when we entered it. And that's what it comes down to and we got it.It starts with conversation.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:41:44]

Yeah. I think, I think you said earlier, it's like, you're an entrepreneur, even if you're in a, in a position of change, like you have control or you have people that are looking at you for leadership for direction, for guidance, or just to be the backstop, it's like.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:42:03]

The team can do its thing as long as they have this foundation to stand on and help the business grow. Because I think ultimately like that's where I am at the moment is, is like building the team and, you know, sitting in that trust and intense, well, it's like choosing people. And trusting my choice.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:42:26]

And then if things do fall apart, not beating myself up over it, but realizing that, Oh, well that was just the wrong choice. Like okay, fine. Or that relationship had an ending, like all relations ships will have or things that start must end. And just realizing that, well, you know, it's not the end of the world because your VA or your assistant or your partner or whoever you're with whatever that relationship is leaves.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:42:58]

It's kind of like, okay, well now the new phase starts whether you chose to, to start that new phase or not, or somebody else chose it for you, this is just how the world functions. So thank you, Caleb. I just want to, I want to be conscious of your time as well because it's been a good conversation as always. We've chatted a couple of times now. And I hope that the audience appreciate it as well. Any last words, where can people find you?If you want them to find you?

Caleb Nelson: [00:43:26]

I have a laughing because I will tell it to people who said like, you don't even have a website. I tried looking for it. I'm like, no, I don't. And that's been, on a couple of fronts and like, to prove that you can do business without having a website, like people before the internet existed, people made money like it's okay. If you know how to talk to people. Probably the best place to follow me right now is at Leben real life on Instagram.

Caleb Nelson: [00:43:48]

Or you can just find me on Facebook. It's Caleb Nelson. I'll have a website up some point, whatever that have decided that to happen, butI'm always open to connect. Advice, final piece of advice for people. Take sometime with yourself. Be real with yourself and it's okay. Like you don't have to be perfect.

Caleb Nelson: [00:44:07]

You're probably going to mess it up the first time. Or the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, right. You're going to constantly mess it up and it's not so much a mess up. It's you're going to find the gaps in what you thought was true, you know, and it's going to start very vague. It's a big brush, broad brush strokes, and then it becomes more finely tuned.

Caleb Nelson: [00:44:27]

And I just find that the asking yourself, the one question, what do you want for yourself over and over and over and over and over and over again, that definition that leads to, you know, what is your purpose? What are you leaving behind on this planet? Which is my actual favorite question to ask is it will start to come into clarity and it will just show up before you.

Caleb Nelson: [00:44:52]

But, if you can be proactive about it, you will feel like you have a sense of autonomy in deciding when things happen, as opposed to feeling like you were blindsided and it was somebody else's fault. Or why is the world happening to me this way or yada yada. It is always a choice you chose not to prepare yourself.

Caleb Nelson: [00:45:10]

You chose not to look into the future. You chose not to check in on what you want. And if you can just decide that you are worth spending some time with and liking being with yourself with what you bring to the table. I think you'll find some really amazing things within yourself, you'll realize that you've been carrying a lot of extra pressure that you didn't really need to.

Caleb Nelson: [00:45:35]

And from my own personal experiences you'll find some really amazing relationships. And you also make space for the relationships that weren't really working well for you. Maybe they needed some time. But they might come back and to your life in a new way that it could have been in the first place.

Caleb Nelson: [00:45:51]

And that's been one of the, as I've gone on a reconciliation tour, that's been one of the most bizarre things. Like he didn't even realize it just some time apart to get solid on you. Yeah. Thanks for that. But the more you do it, either, the happier you're going to be, I guess that's the way and happy it's kind of a fluff concept. I think fulfillment.

Caleb Nelson: [00:46:13]

Filming with people like, Oh, I'm so I just wanna be happy.Like you're not going to happy every day. That can be like rainbows and butterflies but I think fulfillment in your work, in the doing of things.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:46:22]

Yeah which is in my mind that comes down to movement. At least if there's a little bit of movement each day, whether it's your business, your relationships at home with your family, your kids, whatever that looks like to you, Caleb, thank you so much. I appreciate the time. Once again. This has been awesome.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:46:42]

I'm going to check in with you for the podcast probably in about a year, maybe 12 to 18 months, check in with you, hopefully by then you'll have your website, it's quicker than that. You can definitely get them quicker than that. But yeah, this has been great. So all the links for the Caleb goodies will be down below and yeah.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:47:01]

Thank you for listening to the episode. If you're onYouTube, definitely hit the subscribe button, leave a comment, answer the question that Caleb answered. Like, I really want to know what you have to say about that. And if you're on Apple or wherever you're listening to the podcast hit the follow. Do the subscribe thing, leave a review really appreciate you.Thank you so much, Caleb again, and, we'll catch you on the next episode.

Caleb Nelson: [00:47:23]

Thank you guys.