34. Why Customer Experience Matters With Dennis Wakabayashi

Business Growth

Why customer experience matters in a world of uncertainty and systems designed for revenue and not people. Dennis Wakabayashi's career in design, marketing and sales has led him to work directly with the people who matter the most for any company, the customer. We explore what it means to actually give a good experience and why it matters.

Show Notes:

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:00]

Welcome to the Marketing Stack podcast. My name is Burhaan and today I'm honored to be speaking to Dennis Wakabayashi. I hope that got his last name, right. And he's one of those very interesting human beings who's dealing with  he's dealing with customer experience and he's dealing with trying to make things better for customers, both online and offline, I guess, Dennis?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:00:22]

That's right.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:22]

And so, you know, it's all about not only efficiency from a, like, how can we get money from you quickly, but also just from like making it easier for you to complete something that you started. Like, you know, if you're at a checkout and you don't pick up the thing that you were supposed to at the supermarket. It's kind of frustrating when you get home and you realize that you didn't get it.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:00:44]

Or if you've got a thousand emails from Amazon saying, Hey, you missed out on something on your checkout. It's like either annoying that you didn't get it, or it's cool that they're reminding you. So it's, it's like one of those things that Dennis works on and he's goes deep into all of those things. He was named as a where's my notes, one of the top 50 experts with regards to social media. Is that right Dennis?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:01:12]


Burhaan Pattel: [00:01:13]

Okay. And also, he's a VP of customer experience implementation of RR Donnelley where they deal with customer experience tactics and a whole bunch of other things related to your purchasing behavior. SoDennis, welcome to the episode.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:01:27]

And I, again, like thank you for reaching out on Twitter and wanting to be in the episode as a guest. You surprised me and you gave me a good experience just by being on the episode or the way that you hustle your way onto the episode.  Thank you.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:01:41]

Thank you. I exactly respect the hustle. One of the things that attracted me to your podcast and wanting to be here today. Burhaan is just your hustle as well. I admire content creators, influencers, people like yourself who put in all of this work to bring audiences and voices together.And so it's an honor to be talking with you this morning.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:02:07]

Yeah. Thank you. You know, it's funny. Like I had been putting off. During a podcast for like ages. I had the intention, I had the software, but I just, this whole thing of like reaching out to people and starting conversations with strangers, like we've just met maybe 10 or 15minutes ago.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:02:24]

And like, I can feel the rapport already. And it's like, Oh, this is not so difficult. Why haven't I done this years before? Right?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:02:33]

It's just because you're a fantastic host. It's

Burhaan Pattel: [00:02:36]

Oh well

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:02:37]

all you. So I also feel the rapport and the vibe is just immaculate. So thank you.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:02:43]

I love, I love the, compliments early in the episode. It's always cool. So tell me what it's like working your way into customer experience. From your history, like where did you start? And sort of like a quick summary of like, how did you get into customer experience and why?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:03:03]

Well, I'm going to tell you a little story. I wasn't always.At this level of, complexity or challenge that I have in my daily role, I started out at the very, very, very bottom. I ran a stat camera at a print shop before there was computers. That's how old I am. I'm dating myself.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:03:25]

And I learned the craft from the shooting of cameras, stat cameras to creating mechanicals for print ads. And then I started at an ad agency where computers were introduced and I learned digital production followed that at the time we were still in the apprentice system.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:03:48]

So I had a art director that I was a production artist for, he taught me how to do television print, radio commercials. I then taught him how to do digital advertising. And when that table sort of turned, I moved on then to digital strategy.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:04:07]

And so when we talk today, we're really talking about 35years of just doing anything anyone asked me in an ad agency, and now I'm a tour RR Donnelley where we're within the top 10 largest marketing firms on the globe.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:04:23]

We service and it's kind of parallel to my life. At RRDonnelley, we do everything from your most basic fundamental applications of marketing and business solutions, all the way to globally complex delivery.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:04:38]

So really how I got here is just one foot in front of the other and working my way through the curiosity, exploration and execution of marketing anythings.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:04:52]

Hmm. So interesting. So the time when you were doing the manual stuff around, what year was that? Like, if you don't mind me asking?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:05:00]

Well, I mean, if you really want to date me, sure. I started in the business running stat cameras in 1989,

Burhaan Pattel: [00:05:10]

Okay interesting

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:05:11]

Yeah 1989.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:05:13]

So in terms of marketing speak, like you said, that was before internet, before the computers became a thing. So that was kind of like, late night TV shows, direct mail, posters, billboards.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:05:28]


Burhaan Pattel: [00:05:29]

Right. Phone book and classified ads. Like all of that is what was like,

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:05:34]

Oh my God. I've I've, I've made so many classified ads. I can fit more sales messaging into a one by one square. People think doing banner ads is hard. Tried telling an, entire brand story in something that's one inch high and two inches wide in one color.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:05:57]

I remember doing my first classified ads. And I was intimidating. It was like, Oh my goodness, how do I fit this into like this very small, you know, the limitation on my life. It was like, massive. Just writing that out. And then, and then like, there's all these thoughts of like,Oh, how do I actually say what I want to say? And then actually get people to call me like, Yeah, it was challenging, but

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:06:21]

Exactly designing, I was speaking from a designing perspective, but you're exactly right. You have to get a message across and engage and convert in this much space. So, yes.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:06:31]

Right. And I think today, if we bring that forward, it's harder now. Maybe we have a few more characters. Maybe we can always like.Well, you know, delete the post and repost it or change the creative. Everyone want it's harder because it's so easy to change. In my opinion, I feel like perfection is at an all time high or perfectionism is at an all time high because of the ability to edit. What do you think about that?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:07:00]

I think that is a perspective that I have not really contemplated. And, but I agree with totally your perspective is so refreshing perfection being at an all time high you're exactly right. Every business is optimizing. We have the ability to look at dashboards or visualize so much data to tell us so much more about our customers.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:07:27]

And the fact that not only can we change things in a lot of instances, we're forced to change things as fast as possible to get closer and closer to perfection. So I would, I would tend to agree with you that at the scale of the things that go on in marketing now, and the speed perfection is, like you said, at an all time high and it's the thing that makes it most difficult for me and you or other marketers, your audience to keep up.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:07:57]

So you started with marketing and sort of getting into all of the creative stuff, but why customer experience? Because there's definitely,I feel like there's there was a decision somewhere in your life where you're like, I want to help people buy these things better. Like how did you get there?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:08:12]

Yeah, sure. I'm happy to share this with your audience. It really was a issue of chickens. And I'll tell you, my grandmother, my grandmother, who's going to be 101 or 102 this year, I think.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:08:28]


Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:08:29]

She, yeah yes. So she's living right. I worked at  rotisserie chicken restaurant chain that was across the United States. I was in charge of the digital marketing. I every year would send a birthday message to my grandmother, of course, with a offer for rotisserie chicken. And she loves rotisserie chicken.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:08:52]

It's like her thing. That's her. jam so that one year the email, went to her, my wife gets the email, goes down to pick up the rotisserie chicken for my grandmother's birthday. And there's no chickens at the restaurant. And what I happen to know is at this particular restaurant, our chickens were never frozen.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:09:14]

They were all natural. They were rotisserie cooked over an hour and a half. So you cannot get a chicken rotisserie chicken while you wait from this place. And so my wife couldn't get the chicken. My grandmother couldn't get the chicken. And I happen to know just from working at this, chain and I had been on tours throughout different parts of the country with our CEO.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:09:38]

And his number one pet peeve was not having chickens at a restaurant that sells chickens. So when we think about it, Burhaan here I am.My CEO has a problem, and my grandmother has the same problem and I'm in the middle of it.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:09:55]

And it was at that moment, I thought there's got to be more to this because the digital marketing I had done had created demand and it made me wonder how many other customers didn't get a chicken that day.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:10:10]

And that was the moment I realized customer experience is so much more than creating demand. There's the supply. And how do you balance supply and demand in a marketplace in different geographies. And that sort of opened my eyes to the fact that marketing teams have to work with supply chains to really create the best customer experience.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:10:37]

And once I changed that perspective away from acquiring customers to adjusting the needs of customers, and fortunately over my career,I've had an opportunity to work with a lot of great leaders who recognize my curiosity and gave me the support to investigate.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:10:58]

And that process over the next two years of that organization, I realized that you got to be two to three months ahead of supply chain and procurement to get natural, fresh chickens to customers. And they had to get to restaurants. And so your marketing, you had to be at least three months ahead.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:11:19]

Being able to predict how many customers would be in a store at any given time and then get that message to supply chain and procurement so that the customer and the company had the best experience together. So that's along story, but suffice it to say, I learned it all from a rotisserie chicken.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:11:39]

Yeah. Well if I had to summarize it, if I had to take like, take away something from that story, it's yes marketing can create a lot of demand. That's what it's there for. That's what it's designed to do. But then the delivery, not, not only just the supply in physical chickens, being at the store available for customers, just that experience of making sure that people got what they wanted.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:02]

Right. Ultimately like they walked in, they had an intention, people get disappointed when they don't get what they want and you lose customers that way. And they could be, you lose customers for life sometimes.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:12]

And I'm all about that, like in my business as well. I think long-term these conversations that I have for the podcast and also other conversations that I just jump on randomly are all about building relationships and you know, my goal is to have friends all around the world that I can just pop in whenever I feel like when I'm in town type of thing.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:12:34]

Next time you're in Texas, you pop in. Well, you could be a tour guess room. We can share a Youtube studio we'll do a little side-by-side YouTube show.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:43]

Yeah, that'd be cool. Thank you. I mean, I didn't intend for that to happen, but thank you. I appreciate that. But, yeah, I've also kind of experienced a similar thing. I was advertising on Facebook for a client in HongKong, actually to the Asian market.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:12:57]

So we, would you know, delivering goods to Thailand and Japan and a lot of countries around, around this area. And, the ads performed so well that he ran out of stock and the factory was two months behind schedule. And we basically had to shut all the campaigns off because the business just couldn't survive on and I was like, dude, like, that's the hottest product?

Burhaan Pattel: [00:13:21]

He's like, no, but we made a version B and I'm like, no version A is the one people want. And he was like, I'm sorry. Like we just, you know, and so he's online sales plummeted because he w he didn't have that product available.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:13:35]

And by the time we got it back on, they were like, 20 or 30other copycats that are already cause this is like Chinese market. Right? So within a couple of days, that product was already out by some other factory.And, and we had lost that market share. So sorry that like a little bit of along story there as well.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:13:53]

I love that story I was listening intently. Burhaan. I identify completely with what you're saying. I've had an opportunity to, to work in the, the Asian markets, of course, like you have. And I appreciate, so my mind was I was sort of reliving some moments at temple street night market in Hong Kong and enjoying listening to you talk about that.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:14:15]

And did you know that one of the 10 most amazing bathrooms in the world is at Felix's at the peninsula hotel in Hong Kong. It's on the top floor and it's a, bathroom that's basically made of glass. That looks out over the city and, but it's still private, but it's also scenic.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:14:37]

It's it's if next time you're there peninsula hotel, Felix's on the top floor, but I liked your conversation because it's any channel, right? I was doing it in email. You were doing it in advertising, on search engines, using algorithms. People can simply use so many tools to connect with customers.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:14:59]

And they just rush out to talk to customers when they do that without considering the logistics and supply chain or the connection or the happiness of that customer at scale, and you run into these problems, it hurts the reputation of the brand and ultimately in the long run it's, to your point it causes shifts in the marketplace.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:15:22]

Customers subscribed to brands now they unsubscribed and they'd go right over to the other provider, and so I totally agree with that. It's supply and demand have to meet.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:15:32]

Yeah. Well, I think it's like, just in terms of like we're producing content, we're trying to produce content. We're putting out videos onYouTube and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work and there's a lot of cringy content out there. And we all know about that. For me, I'm less conscious of the cringe because I'm all about just getting it done now.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:15:55]

It's like, you know, even if the edit is not a hundred percent perfect, I'm trying to let go of that perfectionism so that, you know, the audience also that at least the one or two people that are watching my videos or that are listening to the podcast no it's more than that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:16:10]

But yeah,  at least it's about who's listening or who's watching rather than how many and that perspective for me. I heard that many years ago. I think, I can't even remember who it was,  who I heard it from, and that kind of changed the game a little bit from you because, you know, even if it's one customer who doesn't get the chicken, it's one too many.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:16:33]

That's right. That's exactly right.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:16:36]

And then they are marketing tactics where, you know, it's like limited offer. We only available 10 seats and there's some lots of like, there's lots of trickery going on in the world as well when it comes to that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:16:48]

And so there's a fine line between creating demand, giving that experience of like fear of missing out, because I think fear of missing out is a valuable tool in terms of marketing when it's legitimate or when it's real, right. If the chickens are finished, the chickens are finished. Like that's not cooked up demand, forgive the pun there.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:17:11]

But you know, it's like, what do you, what do you think about that? Cause you're online. You're seeing all the bullshit that's going on. You're seeing all the hokey pokey stuff, like what's your opinion on the way that things are going.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:17:25]

I you asked a couple of questions there. I wanted to address the cringe content. I agree with you a hundred percent. I was going to share with you earlier when we were warming up for this podcast, that I leave my cringiest videos on my YouTube channel. Those ones that have, I think, four views.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:17:44]

And I love them because you're right. It's about just being authentic. And I think that when you reflecting upon something earlier, we talked about having the progression of videos or content go from cringey to a little better, to a little better, that continued pursuit of perfection.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:18:04]

I think it makes us better as human beings, ourselves, as we acknowledge our growth, acknowledge the growth in others and continue to be part of the voice of giving permission for people to succeed over time.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:18:22]

And I was looking at my phone and I want to just I re posted this little meme, but you made me think of it, which is it says, do you want to know what my secret is? You see, I don't mind what happened. And I think that there is a certain poetry to constantly pursuing perfection, but not expecting it.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:18:46]

So I just want to acknowledge you there. And as far as all the different kinds of things that I see in the internet, one from a content creator perspective, I agree with you that any content is good content. In my opinion, that is going along the journey.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:19:05]

Repetitive content I feel is that the part of the internet that is unfortunate. And it's hard to get away from. So I always try to be part of the culture or the communities or the companies that are innovative. So there you have it, you have repetitive to innovative.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:19:28]

I tend to go towards innovation, innovators, you as an example, your multiple content streams, you're innovating. You're creating anew connection between people all the time and there's companies I can say I looked at several startups this year.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:19:47]

And there are companies doing things that are completely game changers. Like there's this company called Joined app. They put check transactions  transactions in the chatwindows, across all the platforms in this seamless thin layer way.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:20:04]

So if you think about it from an experience perspective, when you are shopping, You're basically going to an online e-commerce portal, yours doing all the work yourself you're searching through.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:20:17]

Sure shopping is a fun experience, but a shopping cart. If the doorbell rings or, or the dog barks, you abandoned the shopping cart, right. When you're chatting with someone and you're having a shopping experience together with someone else.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:20:33]

And then the doorbell rings, you might tend to say, Hey, can somebody get that for me? I'm in the middle of something because you don't abandoned people during this process of transaction or a purchasing. So I find that to be one of the most innovative things out there.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:20:48]

So to sum that up, I look for innovations, innovating people platforms process and I gravitate towards those things and I try to filter the rest out. But that, that doesn't mean I don't respect those other things as well.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:21:06]

Sure. Sure. And what do you say about all the trickery going on?  

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:21:11]

When you say trickery, I think I would define trickery as repetitive automation. And so that's one and I think the other one is just pure deception. I mean, if I could, I mean, there's a funny kind of part of me that wants some of that trickery be real.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:21:31]

I would love to just wire someone four, or give them fourAmazon gift card numbers and get back a million dollars or, you know, or whatever those, those things are. And. So, I mean, at a  certain point you got to admire the creativity as well.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:21:50]

You know, I don't, I don't throw a shade on anyone, but you're right. There's trickery. And I, myself, as a practitioner, I try to migrate towards innovative, fun, engaging frictionless experiences. And, you know, I say that as a recommendation to your audience, but I think it's a lifestyle too, right?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:22:10]

We sort of, there's another quote, how you do anything is how you do everything. And so I think we try to be better as people try to help people on their journey, whether they're customers or employees or just humans and the world needs right now.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:22:26]

Yeah. There was something that I was thinking of while you said that, and it's, you know, it comes down to what can we do for people? And in terms of marketing, you know, I think. Like we get all these tools.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:22:39]

Like if you had to think about Facebook and how Facebook started, and then they built the ad platform and then advertisers went nuts and they were selling all of the, like, there were no rules. or It was like, why doI best type of thing?

Burhaan Pattel: [00:22:51]

And all the changes, all the rules, all the algorithm updates that happened, or that happened all the time on these platforms, I believe make one make things better for the consumer, right? So one it's always the consumer in mind because Facebook's gonna lose the audience. If they don't do that.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:23:12]

And two as marketers, we are then forced to innovate. We're forced to make changes. We're forced to think of different ways. And so like ifI had to think of a current thing that's going on with this, IOS 14 update. You know, Facebook is fighting the fighting tooth and nail against it.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:23:31]

But as marketers, we're like, well, for me anyway, I'm like,Hmm, okay, that's fine. But how can we adapt? You know, how can we change what do we need to do in the future? Whether Facebook gets it right, again, wins the fight or not people's privacy is important and they need to have the choice.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:23:51]

And so it's like, well, Fine. Maybe we're taking a step back because now we don't know that these people want bananas that are grown in theSouth of Brazil versus bananas that are made in Thailand.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:24:02]

Like fine. Like,okay, how can we still figure this out? And so I think that just pushes the human race forward as a whole, because, you know, it's like, what can we dobetter?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:24:15]

You know, Burhaan you're right. People love innovation and they hate change. And there's a beautiful, irony there, the changes in the operating systems. As we started talking about a very on the ability to change rapidly and quickly. It creates a culture in any organization.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:24:38]

I see small companies all the way to large enterprises who either embrace change or do not. And that becomes reflected in their customer base or the inner employees, or in extends outwards into communities who are inflexible or into software.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:24:57]

And I think your point is whether it's Facebook or Google or the internet in general, these changes happen at scale. And I think you either become a person who's ready for constant change or you don't. And that's whereI think a lot of that polarizing discussion that we see around certain topics happens.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:25:24]

Because at the end of the day, there are people are willing to change and people who are not willing to change. And unfortunately it's been amplified by social media. If you choose to embrace change, I think you're, you're voting for innovation and you get that journey to perfection all the way around.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:25:46]

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's funny, I'm at the moment reading Antifragile and then I forget the author's name, but it's one of those fascinating books that goes into history. Actually, let me find the name right now.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:25:58]

Yes. While you do that, I'm going to quick write myself a note because something tells me if you're reading it, it's going to be worth reading myself.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:26:08]

Yeah. It it's by Nassim Taleb and he tells the story of howYou know, back before refrigeration was a thing people used to. They found out that ice and food helps to preserve food longer. So, you know, wastage and you get to keep food for longer because there's certain foods that can't be grown and made in certain parts, you know, certain times of the year, et cetera.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:26:32]

And so they were using ice. So they were putting up ice of the lakes and the rivers and well, wherever water was accumulating and freezing to store food. And then obviously you know, but long story short refrigeration was invented, blah, blah, blah. And then we had these little ice machines or freezers in our homes.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:26:54]

And if you look at the history, the companies who were cutting up the ice did not embrace the refrigeration technology and all of those companies in that chain to get to where we are now. It wasn't the same people that started that journey that had innovated into the new business.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:27:13]

So I think customers are adapt. Like we have to adapt ifApple changes the phone or they don't support a low, you know, an older version, which just have to upgrade or buy a new phone or like technology in that way does force us to use newer things.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:27:30]

But when it comes to businesses, like if you think of Nokia, if you think of Ericsson, like they were in the cellphone markets in a very big, very big way. Didn't embrace Blackberry typical example. They didn't embrace touch screen technology. And so they're no way in the cellphone market space anymore. They still exist, but they're not in that space.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:27:49]

And so as I look at all of these things and I try to reinvent myself, like now at the moment it's like, okay, well, how do I not become obsolete? How do I embrace change? How do I give my clients a good customer experience so I still stay relevant.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:28:08]

Yeah. That's, that's a really great set up and application of the awareness that you have in the industry. Change is certainly important in the culture in cultures of corporations. So I'll speak to your audience from the perspective of what I  see.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:28:28]

Innovation and change happen in an organization when there is strong communication. In your example of going from cutting up ice on theLake to freezer technology. There were some for some ice companies that made the leap and then others who recognize the change and capitalized upon it.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:28:48]

In both instances, you had a culture or a system of people who communicated well, shared ideas, were open to change and they did that in, in your example of the ice, maybe there was some, there were some groups that had one lone person who made, cut the ice and took it to town.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:29:11]

And that person did not communicate with others like himself or herself to create a bigger network of people. And this open communication and permission to change and permission to be curious. That's what I find is at the heart of companies that are very innovative and they communicate that to their people.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:29:32]

And the employees are part of the co-creation throughout the entire organization. You see that in companies like Apple or others that continue to drive forward and bring us new things. So I think communication, you know, I always think of all success comes out of three things, empathy.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:29:54]

So that means I listen to you. You listen to me and we feel each other's intent. Empathy collaboration leads to growth. So if we can connect with each other and we collaborate, we work together. Then we both go as people.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:30:10]

And that applies at the individual at any business as well it applies to everyone in the business at any corporation, as well as any non-profit or anything you're doing in life. If you empathize with others and you collaborate. Positive change happens.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:30:29]

Yeah. I like that that's seems like it's like a version it's what's the word, formula for success in the new world that we live in, right?

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:30:38]

Yeah. That's my formula, empathy, cooperation we see growth.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:30:42]

Cool. I love that. Well, Dennis, thank you so much for being with me on the episode. This was fun. I certainly learned a lot from you and I hope that the audience did as well. Where can people find you? Do you want them to find you and where.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:30:57]

People can find me at denniswakabayashi.com. You can find me on Twitter @justintimecx you can just search Google search, Wakabayashi I hope, but if they find a link there of what to buy the spelling of my name, but Wakabayashi plus marketing Wakabayashi plus customer experience.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:31:18]

They can find me, but more than anyone finding me, I want to just, I just wanted to meet you Burhaan. I admire your grind. I've been watching the timer as you've been talking, and we've certainly gone longer than most podcasts. I don't know. How we'll use this content, but I do want to say,I really admire what you're doing.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:31:38]

You have a great YouTuber presence the whole time we've been here. I've been thinking I really, I liked his, his vibe. So I wonder if I can be more like that. Cause you look just like a comfortable YouTuber like I'm like,

Burhaan Pattel: [00:31:52]

Thank you

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:31:52]

so I'm picking up a little tips then how to look better on camera from you. So it's just been, as you mentioned, a great opportunity to meet you. I appreciate the collaboration and thank you so much, sir.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:32:07]

Thank you. And so all of Dennis's links will be below the episode. If you're looking at this on the website, if you're on YouTube, hit the subscribe button, definitely check out Dennis's YouTube channel as well, which I know he's, he's got it's active, but kind of, I would encourage you to keep going on the YouTube thing.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:32:24]

I have four videos coming up there on this other desktop. I promise.

Burhaan Pattel: [00:32:29]

Nice. Nice. Please get them out. And then, yeah, if you're listening to this on Apple, you know what to do, hit the follow, leave a review, do all of the good things for us to keep the content going. Thank you so much, Dennis that was cool. Thank you.

Dennis Wakabayashi: [00:32:43]

Awesome. Thank you.

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